For weeks, I have been challenged by a statement made in a committee meeting by a faculty members about classroom management. They spoke to the fact they wanted "older" more"mature" students in their introduction 1000 level classes because "these 18 year olds talk too much." Having an elementary education background, classroom management and instruction went hand in hand. Taking this even outside education in general, business have to manage clients, employers have to manage employees, even sports industries try and manage players (well they attempt.) So hearing this comment, I was thrown and the statement has left a question in my mind, what do you mean they talk to much? As an elementary teacher, I had to set and keep the expectations I had for classroom behavior, so isn't that a part of every classroom environment including colleges?
Before I go on, there are fabulous professors at every school and as time has past, this one professor is just burnt out and not exciting about the changing age numbers for Metro State (our median age in three years has dropped from 28 to 25; also the majority of our last two classes coming in has been more traditionally aged students than ever before in the college's history). This change in the student population has sent a wave of change across the campus and some faculty are struggling with how to handle the change in their classrooms.
Having this on my mind, in the last week Inside Higher Ed has published two articles on the changing classroom environments on campuses nationwide. One article touched on the different skill sets that are rewarded in classroom grading based on general education classes versus major classes. The beautiful point in this article was the author/professor admitted his own attempt to teach a 1000 level class had to change to reward all types of thinking in the classroom. His learning experience came from his own research and understanding of different student learning styles.
The second article reports that the US Department of Education is proposing a new way of graduating and evaluating elementary and secondary teachers both in their training programs and beyond. The proposal is asking for a teacher to be granted permission to teach not based on their performance on a licensure test but on their learning outcomes and how effective they are in the classroom. Now, having been through a process like a licensure program in order to teach kindergarten, where is the licensure process for teaching in college?
I know I might be wading into some murky waters here with this post. Please let me say, I do not believe all college professors act in this manner. This is not a generalization of college faculty and professors as a whole. As I said before, this opinion belongs to this faculty member on my campus. The challenging part of me is that I know she is not alone, but also not in a majority.
There are many calls and commitments to increasing the number of students getting college degrees and Obama wants a more educated nation. I am all for that and try to do my part each day. But when I recruit a student and know some of them will walk into a 1000 level class with a professor who doesn't want to teach them, what am I to do? What weighs on me further is the student who will struggle with that professor might have already struggled to be successful in college.
Is this happening on your campuses?
No murky waters here :) Really, I think this is a really interesting topic. But, please consider things from the professor’s position for a minute. I think there are significant differences between the behavioral expectations of students in elementary, secondary, and college classrooms. What follows is based strictly on my own perceptions as someone who has never taught k-12. I welcome corrections to my thinking.
ReplyDeleteClassroom management is (and should be) a primary focus of an elementary school teacher because a great deal of socialization and behavior is being learned. In these environments kids are learning how to be students and develop the self-control necessary to accomplish particular tasks. As people progress through grades, it is assumed that they are able to focus more on learning content and need less direction/feedback to correct their behaviors. By the time an individual reaches 12th grade, he/she should have a fairly good grasp on certain basic classroom principles. A few include turning in assignments when they are due, not copying from other people, waiting until the end of class to leave, responding when called upon, and not talking when the teacher (or others) is talking. These are advanced skills that are appropriate for young adults. If a high school senior is still touching, pushing, and pulling the hair of someone they have a crush on, we would probably ask why he/she did not learn by 6th grade that this was inappropriate behavior. The point is that there are learned behaviors we can expect from individuals in certain environments.
One expectation among many college faculty is that high school graduates can accurately determine when it is appropriate to talk and when it is expected that they listen. Based on the comment by your faculty member, I would guess that he/she feels that some students are having a difficult time with these behaviors, and perhaps worse (in his or her mind) that they do not pick up on the subtle signs that suggest the instructor is become impatient. While in H.S. it might be appropriate to call someone out for their behavior, this becomes more difficult when dealing with college students who expect to be treated as adults. It turns into a tricky balancing act--- managing a group of adults who should know when to be quite. Part of the issue is that it often feels as if the adults who are the offenders are also the ones who will complain to the dean or give a poor evaluation if they are called out (even if this is done after class or in a non-confrontational way). Worse, faculty members cannot be assured that the administration will back them up when they do actively manage their classroom. I can't defend the comment you refer to (the person may really be tired) but will humbly suggest that the person may still love education and teaching, just not the behavior of younger students.
Amy,
ReplyDeleteI’m struck by the fact that the instructor in this case believed that older students are less disruptive than younger college students in the classroom. In my experience related to student conduct at our institution, I’m not sure that her assumption is accurate—at least not when it comes disruptions which are referred to the College’s judicial process. Although I do not have empirical data on this (yet?), I have had several discussions with our staff who are directly involved in mediating classroom disruptions when a faculty member files a report about student behavior. Anecdotally, older students are accused of violating the Student Code of Conduct clause about classroom disruptions at a disproportionately higher rate than their younger, traditional aged college student peers. In our office, we have brainstormed some possible factors in why this might be the case:
1) Is it possible that younger/traditional aged students simply are retaining the knowledge about and behavior related to classroom expectations and etiquette, better than their older peers since they were more recently in the K-12 environment? Essentially, are they simply accustomed to paying attention when someone else is taking, sitting in a desk for a block of time, and other basic classroom expectations; whereas an older student who may have been in a very different type of environment for any number of years prior to coming to college may not retain these habits from high school? Likewise, might younger students be more responsive to early redirection from the instructor (“please be quiet now”), and therefore concerns aren’t rising to the level in which the Judicial Affairs office would be involved?
OR
2) Is it possible that faculty members have higher expectations for older
students in regards to classroom behavior than they do younger students? Matt’s comment describes the faculty sentiment of ‘they should know better by now’. Is this expectation heightened for older students? I think it very well could be. Our conduct office was recently asked to intervene in a situation involving a student in our institutional Meritus program—a no-cost audit style program for adults age 60 and older. There was disbelief from most involved in this situation that a student “at that age” would behave in a disruptive way.
In any case, not to veer too far off course from your post, I wanted to call attention to some of the assumptions that are made about classroom behavior and age. I question if the reported changes that faculty are experiencing are truly due to the lower average age of students, or if some other factor, or more likely, a series of other factors, could explain some of the changes that are being felt. If/when (?), we compile conduct data by age, I’ll be sure to let you know!
Amy your post reminds me that elementary school teachers are way underpaid. I think that would be such a difficult job! So, now we are talking about college professors. I do agree with Matt that there are certain expectations on behavior that is different at the college level than elementary, middle, and even high school. Certainly our students must be held to higher expectations. With that said, that does not mean that professors simply do not have to manage their students behavior from time to time. I often notice the various ways my cohort as a group responds to different professors in our program. There are certain professors where we are more relaxed with and on occasion we become more chatty during class. Then, there are professors where we are generally always on task and professional. Each person in my cohort knows what behaviors are expected of us at the doctoral level so what is the difference? Classroom management?
ReplyDeleteSo, Amy, I may be wading in murky water right next to you but in terms of the faculty member's comment at your committee meeting, my mind either goes to: unwilling/unskilled to manage their classroom or uncomfortable with the changes your institution is facing. Never having been a teacher or professor at any level, I am aware this may be a simplistic or ignorant comment.
Amy, thanks for the thoughtful post. While I am no longer at Metro, I still was triggered by the faculty members comment, as you were. And, with my conduct experience at Metro, I am making a guess or two as to who that faculty member was. But that's not the point, I don't need to know that. :)
ReplyDeleteAlong the lines of classroom management, you are correct, a lot of faculty members I have dealt with at many institutions have been ineffective in the way that they set classroom expectations. Granted, I have done conduct at 5 different institutions and while there are awesome faculty, as you said, there are some that just don't have the skills.
Working with conduct means that I see a lot of faculty in the last 3 weeks of the semester coming to me asking me to suspend a student. They say "this has been happening all semester!" I find with those faculty members that conflict avoidance paralyzes their ability to manage the class.
I think the idea of licensure to teach at the college level is an interesting thought. It has started me thinking on what that might look like.
Thanks again Amy, your post was well written!
Having worked with Meloni on a lot of the conduct cases at Metro (I was the admin assistant in the department), I wholly concur! I cannot tell you the number of times that I fielded calls from professors about classroom management issues. Most of the issues could have been resolved with setting clear expectations at the beginning of the semester. In some cases, I feel that having professors go through a course in effective classroom management would be a huge help.
ReplyDeleteWe receive a lot of calls and complaints in our office about these issues as well. I can certainly see both sides of the argument in terms of expectations and responsibility on the part of faculty, and expectations that the classroom environment be managed so as to allow for learning on the part of students. We have a lot of faculty on our campus who are caught off-guard by the changes in student behavior and attitudes in recent years. Many seem ill prepared to deal with the consumer mentality (the mentality that we have been complicit in instilling) of todays students. I have watched this issue travel from first year students 5-6 years ago all the way to our medical and pharmacy programs. This is an issue that is here and should be addressed.
ReplyDeleteOn some levels I disagree that most faculty do not want to manage the classroom. It has been my experience that many are either afraid to (lawsuits/violence/FCQ's) or do not know how to. We work with faculty on strategies for how to address the small things (talking, coming late, etc.) and take a more active role in addressing anything over the top. In general students are more responsive to a professor "calling them out" for behavior than they are in being referred to my office. It is our approach to leave the power and authority in the classroom whenever possible. In many cases students are not aware of how their behavior is being perceived and are able to adjust quickly to meet expectations.
I believe that we should be giving our faculty the tools to successfully manage their classrooms. We have started to do this at CU Denver via workshops and orientation on the most basic of levels. I am curious what impact these small